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DCN: According to CLIA, there were 12 million cruisers last year, and 83 % of Americans still have yet to cruise.  With all of the newer and bigger ships coming out with more capacity in the years to come, what are CLIA's forecasts for cruse passengers in 5 years and in 10 years?             

DALE: Well, we actually don’t have a forecast 5 and 10 years out.  We have a forecast for 2007 which takes us to 12.6 million passengers which again will be a record breaking year               

DCN: So, about a 5% increase over 2006?.

DALE: Exactly. And we anticipate running again at occupancy in excess of 100%. So, the industry is healthy. It's robust and we believe that that trend will continue 5 and 10years out. But I can’t give you, necessarily a number to attach to those specific years.             

DCN: Looking at that 5% increase, and with all of the new ships coming out, would you say that that's probably going to about the average over the next few years?       

DALE: It will be consistent        

DCN: Looking even further down the road just how big do you think the cruise market can become?

DALE: I believe there's no limit to it, to be quite truthful. I believe that with only 17% of the North American population having ever cruised that we haven't even scratched the surface and that it's our responsibility to deliver that message, as a partner with the travel agent, to the traveling public on why there's tremendous value, why it's the greatest vacation option for any consumer today. So, I just think that there's truly no limit to the kind of growth that we can experience within the industrY.

DCN: We certainly love to hear that type of forecast!

DALE: Sure

DCN: Your leadership at CLIA - you've headed CLIA for approximately 4 years - is that correct?

DALE: 3 1/2

DCN: 3 1/2 years. Okay. During those years we've seen CLIA evolve - with the implementation of Cruise 360, the World's Largest Cruise Night promotion, the CLIA Travel Agent Advisory Board, and the expansion of National Cruise Vacation Month, and your move to South Florida, of course, which is where I believe CLIA should be

DALE: Sure. 

DCN: All of this seems very pro agent, which calls for kudos for you, as we certainly are all about being pro agent here at Daily Cruise News, and it bodes well for the agent community for the future, but is there a long term plan at CLIA to solidify and strengthen the relationship with the travel agent sales force?

DALE: Absolutely. Every step: that we take here is about further cementing the relationship: between the travel agent and the cruise industry. We are true partners. Without the travel agent we cannot succeed. And we believe the way you further cement that relationship: is through education. We want the most knowledgable sales force in the industry today, and that means engaging travel agents with certification and training and getting them to become ACCs, MCCs, ECCs, and the more they know, the better job they're going to do at educating consumers on the cruise vacation and converting them to sailing with us. We really continue to drive home the message of education and certification and through that we will together grow - the cruise industry and travel agents will be more profitable. 

DCN: Absolutely. And you touched upon something that we are very keen on, which is educating the travel agent. 

DALE: Yes!

DCN: As I am sure you know, in just about every other country in the world, there is a requirement of at least two years of education in the travel industry before one is allowed to work in the industry. However, in the United States, anyone can call themselves a travel agent which is unfortunate. Does CLIA have any plans to require more than just the one course per year to retain that CLIA card?

DALE: Now, of course, we believe that education is ongoing and something you need to be involved with day in and day out. There are a lot of challenges with saying that you have to become an ACC. I personally believe that we need to make it so compelling that they want to, rather than mandating it, by giving to them the kind of classes, the kind of training, that they just say “You know what, I want to do this because it's going to make me more profitable!”

Our most recent survey of our agents who are CLIA certified - they told us that on average they've seen their sales increase 261% when they became certified. So, to me, that's a pretty staggering statistic! That is something that should be compelling to anyone entering the industry today, or even someone who has been selling for 20 or 30 years. At the end of the day, the more knowledgable you are the more profitable you are. 

DCN: No doubt about that! Education means success in our industry. I, personally, have attained an MCC, by the way. 

DALE: Thank you. 

DCN: And back in 1986 I attained a Certified Cruise Counselor accreditation, which was the predecessor to the ACC, I believe. Back then, you would go to a regional CLIA training conference and spend a couple of days in seminars and at the end of that conference you would have attained what was then known as the Certified Cruise Counselor designation. 

DALE: Right. And I think they called it The Institute. So, what we've done is we have an Institute track at Cruise360, so that it serves the same purpose, but it's wrapped within this conference. I remember when I first directed CLIA. I went to The Institute and it was just trememdous!

DCN: When I attended, it was packed! Two days of - for someone who'd been in the industry a while - it was just kind of an eye opener - are you doing things right, and if so, let's let you know you're doing things right, and for anyone that was not as knowledgeable, or new to the industry, it was putting them on the right track.It was a good program.

Okay, getting back to the requirements. Absent having any more training requirements than the one course, and certainly the increase in sales should be enough reason for every real travel agent out there to want to attain those accreditations, do you know what the member lines are doing, if anything, to police the eligibility of CLIA card holders? It's a big thing in the industry between the CLIA card and the IATAN card. You've got the card mills and you've got the psuedo agencies that are charging people for membership and giving them the cards as a benefit. Is there any policing or planned policing to help eliminate that?

DALE: There is close monitoring by CLIA and our cruise line members of these card mills because they do tremendous damage to the industry and the credibility of the travel agents who work so incredibly hard. So, when an entity gets on our radar screen as being a potential card mill, we have a defined process, legally, that we must go through. We must issue to them that they must cease and desist the present activity, that they are using the CLIA logo and our intellectual property in an inappropriate manner. If they don't cease the activity, then they will be removed from CLIA membership. We are very diligent when it gets on our radar screen and we do monitor and I know our cruise lines do as well because it does a disservice to the hard working professional. 

DCN: Let’s talk about the percentage of sales that travel agents are doing for the cruise lines. I'm a realist and I've been in this business for 30 years and I know that in any business, to succeed, you must utilize all of your sales channels. You're not just going to sell through just one sales channel. My concern – or, more accurately, the concerns that I have heard are with some agencies getting too big, with too much of a share of the market. I think that the concern there is that some of those agencies might start to dictate the market.  Have you seen this to be of any concern? 

DALE: I don't believe that there are influencers today who are dictating. I think that certainly CLIA, and the cruise line members, are looking for balanced input. Let me just refer to our Travel Agent Advisory Board -. we have a real broad mix. 

DCN: We have looked at who's sitting on the board and you do have a mix - you have Cruise Planners, you have Cruise Shoppes - you have some of the larger agencies… 

DALE: We also have some homebased agents. 

DCN: I saw that.

DALE: That's critical. All of these individuals and professionals are selling and their needs are different.  We need to be able to (a) recognize what those needs are and how are we meeting those and (b) what are our plans in the future? I know each of our cruise line members have advisory boards as well; they’re sensitive to the diverse audience or universe of sellers out there. So, I think that, obvously, our goal is always to have a balanced input and voices from the distrubution system. 

DCN: Getting back to the agents. Agents still sell 9 out of 10 luxury cruises – premium or luxury cruises.  The overall sales are estimated at 80% i believe for 2006 which is down from 88% in 2002. Is that trend continuing to 2007? 

DALE: Our latest survey of our cruise line members indicates that it's actually higher than that. 

DCN: It is? 

DALE: It's right around 90% of all sales are originated with the travel agent. The travel agent is critical and will always be critical, and as you indicated it doesn't mean there isn't a responsibility to work all the different channels, but we realize our bread and butter comes through the travel agent distribution system and we are here to continue to foster that. 

DCN:  It's certainly not like the airline industry, which has truly become a commodity. It is a different product, no doubt. 

DALE: Absolutely. When you look at over the 150 ships and how they are, in and of themselves, unique vessels, and then you look at the ports that they travel to around the world - my goodness, you really do need an educated, certified, cruise counselor to listen to what you're looking to gain from this vacation and then to recommend based on what they've heard, So, the day that we become a commodity is the day that the industry is in danger. 

DCN:  I've told many agents in the past that that day is not going to come because, unlike the airline industry, this is more of a hand-holding relationship with the customer. You've got the exprienced agent's knowledge that is so key. And why would an industry throw away tens of thousands of sales agents that they don't pay until a sale is made?

DALE:  Yes. Absolutely!

DCN: Speaking of the relationship between the travel agent and the cruise lines, in a recent survey of agents with 5 or more years experience, nearly 40% responded that the relationship: between themselves and the cruise lines overall had declined somewhat or significantly over the last 5 years. And only 12.4% had said it had improved somewhat or significantly. And 47% stated no significant change.

With almost 40% of these agents that responded stating that their relationship: with the cruise lines had become not as much as a “partnership” as it had been. I found these figures alarming, however, I can tell you that, personally, I've seen recently, and I'm saying very recently - within the last 6 months - more cruise line willingness to work closer with agents, And, I think the realization is really coming around in the industry that agents, as you also pointed out, are definitely going to remain the future of distribution for this industry. 

DALE: Absolutely

DCN: But, it's been a tough 5 years is what I think this survey is saying - as far as the relationship between the cruise lines and the cruise selling travel agent. 

DALE:  Yes. You attend, obviously, numerous industry events as do I. You hear and witness panel after panel of cruise executives - and we just had our marketing committee yesterday - and we keep hearing, over and over, they truly want to improve the relationship, the partnership, and the communication. And some of it is standing up and waving your hand and saying “Look where I am located.” But, the challenge is how do you find those cruise sellers and communicate with them so that you can build and strengthen the relationship? 

DCN: Well that's Daily Cruise News.  You can let them all know that!

DALE:  There you go. Exactly!  I know in the bottom of my heart these cruise lines have a desire to strengthen the relationship.

DCN:  I agree with you!

DALE: The challenge is, sometimes, finding them.  Let's say someone has moved from a traditional brick and mortar to a home based or maybe they're an online agency. We need to do a better job of making sure we know where they are and how they want us to communicate to them so that nobody slips though the cracks, so nobody feels like they aren't getting the kind of attention and information they deserve. So, it's really about making sure we know how best to communicate to our travel agent partners. 

DCN:  We agree with you 100% Terry! And, I think it's the industry catching up with the way the distribution system has evolved.

DALE: Exactly. 

DCN: Speaking of that, a very large portion of our subscriber base is home based. 

DALE: Good. 

DCN:  And we've heard very loudly from them that many of the host agencies they work with do not avail them of all the cruise line offers that come in, but only pass along those offers and information that come from their preferred suppliers. 

DALE:  Right. 

DCN: So, it's hard for some of them. Many of them get the majority of their information from our Daily Cruise News. Of course, we all understand the hosts kind of hold back and want those preferred suppliers utilized, usually because they're getting a back end or override - it's purely economics based, but this practice really doesn't have the best interests of the entire cruise industry at heart. 

DALE: Right. 

DCN: Our goal here is to work closely with CLIA and the cruise lines and get all the information out to every travel agent that wants it. 

DALE: Exactly. 

DCN: And not just some of the information, which is what they may get from their hosts. 

DALE: Right. Sometimes it's filtered and it's not this free flowing exchange. People like you are helping change that by getting information out, which is great. 

DCN: Well, we certainly do see that CLIA and the industry truly do feel that the agent distribution system is strong and viable. 

DALE: Yes. 

DCN: And something that they need to build on. 

DALE: Right. 

DCN: So… what's next for CLIA?  You have come up with some great marketing programs. Is there anything new planned? 

DALE: The focus for this year is greater integration of the merged association with ICCL and CLIA and issues that we can help equip our travel agents with answers on, such as health, safety and security, environmental. I think that the more that we can integrate actual statistics and facts about the industry, so that the agent feels truly equipped when talking with their customers, that they have the right response,  and they feel confident that they have the right information. I think this year it's all about integration and making sure that we are supplying our partners with the information that they need. 

DCN:  and the partners being the travel agents? 

DALE: The travel agents! 

DCN:  That's great.  Well, Terry, I thank you so much for this inspiring interview. 

DALE:  I thank you. We should just plan on doing this every quarter to catch up. 

DCN: That would be wonderful. I would really enjoy that, as would our subscribers.

DALE: Good. 

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